AfriForum's Kallie Kriel — there are land grabs in SA, not major land confiscations

Ferial Haffajee: AfriForum is said to have had an extraordinary influence on the new US administration. Is that correct, and could you trace the contours of that influence for us?

Kallie Kriel: I think it’s a misconception that we can prescribe what they should do to the US. They won’t take the information we give them and accept that. They have an embassy and a State Department, and they can (obviously) read the Expropriation Act. It’s ludicrous to suggest that we give them information, and they follow it. Our campaign is loyal to South Africa; we know that if South Africa is kicked out of Agoa (African Growth and Opportunity Act) it would be a terrible thing (for workers and the economy), impacting AfriForum members too. [South Africa’s exports to the US under Agoa were worth about R60-billion in 2023. It supports hundreds of thousands of jobs, primarily in the Western Cape.] We say: don’t punish the people of South Africa. We stated that international communities should use their influence to speak to South Africa about the threat to property rights. We did not say what people accused us of saying. [The ANC and others blame AfriForum for Trump’s attack.]

For example, we have a problem with article 12 (3) (of the Expropriation Act) which is open-ended. It gives a few examples of expropriation without compensation and says, for instance, that this can include but is not limited to (specific categories of property). It is very broad. If you buy land for it to grow in value, it can be expropriated without compensation. It gives powers to municipalities, many of which are dysfunctional. Even when a legal process (opposing expropriation) is ongoing, the expropriation can go ahead. This is not in line with the Constitution.

There is no large-scale confiscation by the government. We are worried by the fact that there are land grabs. We tried hard to solve this locally. If people do not want to take responsibility for the consequences of their actions, they find scapegoats (by blaming AfriForum). We have never lied on these issues. We participated in the process of this Act’s hearings (in Parliament) and made representations. In April 2024, we wrote to the President a friendly letter, saying please refer this (the Expropriation Bill) to court. We didn’t get a reply.

Trump also referred to the Bela Act (Basic Education Laws Act), where he said some people are treated badly. [Trump claimed South Africa was “'treating certain classes of people very badly”.]

Afrikaans schools are the home for the continuation of our culture and language. (The education law gives provincial departments of education more decision-making power over schools than before.)

The Presidency denied knowledge of an agreement (at Nedlac, signed with Basic Education Minister Siviwe Gwarube. For more, read here). We are escalating projects with (black) communities. Ordinary people in the country should cooperate. Don’t let Agoa go.

FH: You have said AfriForum will be reaching out to the US government. To whom?

KK: In 2018, I went to the USA, and that was the last time. Solidarity (AfriForum’s trade union arm) has made representations in the US. There are conservative think tanks (they are not fringe), the State Department and people in the capital (Washington) to whom we speak. Locally, you speak to everyone you can. We have had contacts with various embassies. We saw US Senator Ted Cruz this morning in his post on Taiwan being kicked out of Pretoria. (Cruz is head of the US Senate’s Africa subcommittee, and he complained about South Africa’s foreign policy in a post on X on 5 February. South Africa has a one-China policy and gave Taiwan notice to leave Pretoria, as Peter Fabricius reported here). [Kriel says South Africa should focus on domestic matters and not engage in significant geopolitical tensions.]

If you see your role as being a fire brigade, people can get irritated by the sound of your alarm. You can’t blame the fire brigade; you blame the arsonists. There should be an (Expropriation Law) Amendment Act to address these primary concerns. Many parts of the Expropriation Act are not a problem. Yes, most countries do have expropriation laws. But not all countries have an expropriation act that allows for nil compensation – that’s only normal in Zimbabwe and Venezuela.

FH: As South Africa drew together on Monday, it is now common cause that Donald Trump’s post was false. Do you agree?

KK: I won’t say wholesale that it was false. The fact is, we have the Bela Act, and some people feel badly treated. The second part (of Trump’s post – that some people are being treated badly) is totally correct. The first part is not factually correct (that land is being confiscated.) The underlying concern is land grabs, with the police not doing anything to stop them (mainly in the Western Cape and Gauteng). These things might happen in the future. If you rubbish his statement, that wouldn’t be right.

FH: Do you have examples of land expropriation being executed unfairly or unprocedurally?

KK: We represented the owner of the Akkerland farm after the ANC conference 2017, during which the decision to expropriate without compensation was made. (This is a good read on the Akkerland dispute. A Limpopo farm, Akkerland, was earmarked for expropriation as part of a special economic zone with majority Chinese investors. It ended up in Court.)

There was a list compiled of which farms would be targeted. We had an informant in the Department (of Land and Rural Development) who gave us the list, which the government denied. The amount offered (R20-million rather than the ask of R200-million) was low. When there was a public outcry, the government put the price to market value. But that’s the problem: you have a government with huge resources, and a farmer has to go to court. You need an Act that is not open to abuse. And that’s why AfriForum has to be the fire brigade (or the canary in the coal mine).

FH: Is it wise to invite another country to fight your battles in the domestic sphere when we have a robust and independent judiciary, a vital civil society sector, of which you are a part, and a Constitution that works?

KK: If you look at the ANC, they decide the rules of the game. We have studied the ANC documents, and we believe what they say. If you look at the strategy and tactics document and the section on the balance of forces, they do not listen to valid arguments. In terms of the balance-of-forces argument, for the ANC it means it will use every possible mechanism (to shift the balance of forces in its interests).

Read more: Donald Trump and South Africa — this is just the beginning

Interference is sending in an army or occupation. Agoa is the US’ money. Agoa is beneficial to us. They have a right to say “we will kick you out” and because of the circumstances we are in, we say don’t do things that will harm our interests. Agoa says a country must respect property rights. We also go to court and we have done everything up to now and (will) use additional means at our disposal.

FH: You have said that Trump (and the US) should not punish the people but the ANC. What do you mean?

KK: Our initial strategy was never to punish South Africa, although it will be hard to stop the train in the US. Kicking South Africa out of Agoa does not punish politicians, it punishes ordinary people. If they are going to punish, look at the specifics.

FH: Does that mean individual sanctions? Or what specifically?

KK: That is for the US to decide. We don’t sit here and think about how to punish them (the ANC). DM

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