‘Simplistic and infantile’ to demand Russia’s withdrawal from Ukraine, says Pandor after meeting Lavrov

Minister of International Relations and Cooperation Naledi Pandor, and Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, Sergey Lavrov during bilateral talks on Monday, 23 January 2023, in Pretoria, South Africa. (Photo: Jacoline Schoonees / DIRCO)

By Peter Fabricius

23 Jan 2023

International Relations and Cooperation Minister Naledi Pandor said it would have been “simplistic and infantile” to have demanded from her Russian counterpart Sergey Lavrov that Russia should withdraw its military from Ukraine.

And so, Pandor said, she had not called on him to do that when they met in Pretoria on Monday.

Pandor had been reminded that last year on February 24, just hours after Russia began its invasion of Ukraine, her department had issued a statement which said:

“South Africa calls on Russia to immediately withdraw its forces from Ukraine in line with the United Nations Charter, which enjoins all member states to settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice are not endangered.

“South Africa emphasises respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of states.”

And so she was asked at her joint press conference with Lavrov on Monday if she had repeated that call in her meeting with him earlier and, if not, why not?

“I think it was very appropriate early into this conflict to make this statement that we made at Dirco. Because if we had been able to persuade at that early stage we would not be where we are now,” Pandor replied.

“But to repeat that statement to Minister Lavrov today would make me appear quite simplistic and infantile, given the massive transfer of arms that has occurred, given the level of conflict there is, and all the developments that have occurred in almost a year, a month from now.

“So no, I did not repeat that particular statement to Minister Lavrov because I don’t wish to appear as though I don’t know what has occurred in the world.”

Pandor did not explain why the massive transfer of arms that had since occurred, or the level of conflict now reached, would prevent Russia from withdrawing from Ukraine. It sounded as though she might be suggesting that if Russia withdrew now, Ukraine, meanwhile heavily armed with Western weapons, would pursue Russian forces into Russia.

But given the many threats which Russia has made to retaliate with nuclear weapons if its territory were to be transgressed, that seems a very unlikely scenario.

Sergey Lavrov, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation, is welcomed for bilateral talks with his South African counterpart, Minister of International Relations and Cooperation Naledi Pandor in Pretoria, South Africa, 23 January 2023. (Photo: EPA-EFE / Kim Ludbrook)

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Perhaps the real reason that Pandor did not repeat her earlier call on Russia to withdraw from Ukraine is that the original call on February 24 last year apparently angered Russia and President Cyril Ramaphosa, who was quick to issue a counter-statement blaming Russia’s invasion of Ukraine on Nato for extending its membership up to Russia’s borders.

The warmth between the two governments and their foreign ministers was clearly evident in the meetings between Pandor and Lavrov on Monday when they pledged to strengthen relations even further in fields such as atomic energy, the peaceful use of space and infrastructure, and in seeking a more just system of international governance. Lavrov said Russia would grant more scholarships for South African undergraduate students to study in Russia.

Lavrov said he and Pandor had extensively discussed Russia’s “special military operation” in Ukraine (Russia never calls it a war and nor did Pandor).

“We appreciate the independent, well-balanced and considerate approach by our South African friends,” Lavrov said, adding that the meeting would give a new impetus to relations in a whole range of areas.

Both ministers firmly rejected criticism from the Democratic Alliance and others about the joint naval exercise, Operation Mosi 2, which South Africa, Russia and China are to conduct off the KwaZulu-Natal coast next month.

Critics have said it is insensitive to conduct joint naval drills with Russia when its navy is firing fusillades of missiles from the Black Sea into Ukrainian cities, killing hundreds of civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure such as electric substations, plunging the population into darkness and cold in mid-winter.

South Africa’s Minister of International Relations and Cooperation, Naledi Pandor, and Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation Sergey Lavrov during talks on 23 January 2023 in Pretoria, South Africa. (Photo: Jacoline Schoonees / Dirco)

Pandor accused critics of Exercise Mosi 2 of applying double standards, criticising developing and African countries for doing the things they did themselves.

“All countries conduct military exercises with friends, worldwide,” Pandor said, so there should be no compulsion on any country to conduct or not to conduct such exercises with whomever they chose to.

Pandor said no one in the media or elsewhere had complained about the military exercises which South Africa had conducted over the last year with other countries, such as Operation Shared Accord with the US or Operation Oxide with France.

Lavrov said there was nothing to comment on about Exercise Mosi 2 as it was being conducted by three sovereign countries “not violating any norms of international law”. He said the only ones likely to object to this exercise were “our American colleagues because they believe that only they can exercise all over the world”. He cited the current naval exercises the US was conducting near China in the Taiwan Strait, in the framework of the US Indo-Pacific Strategy.

Lavrov vehemently denied that Russia was deliberately targeting Ukrainian civilians and civilian infrastructure such as electricity grids.

“We don’t hit civilian infrastructure. There is a great amount of evidence testifying to that. All the damage to the civilian infrastructure is connected to the criminal actions by the Kyiv regime that has for months been deploying heavy weapons and air defence systems in residential areas.”

Lavrov said Western media accusing Russia of targeting Ukrainian civilian infrastructure now were ignoring what had been happening in Ukraine’s eastern Donbas region since 2014, when he said ethnic Russians had been persecuted and targeted by the Ukrainian government including by its banning mass media and education in the Russian language.

Asked what Russia was doing to seek peace, Lavrov claimed Moscow remained willing to negotiate with Ukraine. But he repeated his frequent claim that when Ukraine had been willing to negotiate in March last year, the US and the European Union had stepped in to say it was too early for peace negotiations and that Ukraine must continue fighting to increase the pressure on Russia.

A group of about 20 people mounted a protest against Lavrov’s visit at the entrance to the Department of International Relations and Cooperation where the two ministers met. The demonstrators, organised by the Ukrainian Association in South Africa, wielded posters proclaiming: “Lavrov, Putin’s Liar-in-Chief”, “Stand Against Mass Murderers”, “No Lie is too big for Putin’s Liar-in-Chief” and “Child Murderer”.

Lavrov was due to pay a “courtesy call” on Ramaphosa last night. He was then due to fly to Eswatini on the next leg of his African tour, according to Russian journalists accompanying him. After that, he would visit Angola and Eritrea. The journalists said Lavrov had originally intended to visit Botswana but had later substituted Eritrea. Russian authorities did not confirm his itinerary, apparently for security reasons. DM

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